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Changed quotation marks #745

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Changed quotation marks #745

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BestiaPL
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@BestiaPL BestiaPL commented Nov 6, 2023

Unified quotation marks - all in this same schema.

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    If not checked, I accept that this work might be rejected in favor of a different grand plan.

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@alabuzhev
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@BestiaPL thanks. However, are you sure that all these languages use the same quotation marks?

If you want to make it consistent, it probably should be consistent with other quotation marks in the same file, not consistent in one particular paragraph across 7 different files.

@BestiaPL
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BestiaPL commented Nov 6, 2023

My translation is based on English (and the missing fragments are based on Russian).
I noticed that on line 241

If the input stream is empty when using ‘-’ (for example, you have not specified

there is a different quotation mark than on line 237:
View the specified file. If <filename> is `#-#', data is read from the stdin.

It's the same with lines:

Several search paths can be specified, separated by ‘;’.

Besides the filename characters, you can also use the wildcard characters
‘*’ and ‘?’.

#!!# ^<wrap>The ‘!’ character

i.e.
English help file:
image

Russian help file - there is no-one single quotation mark.

Ukrainian:
image

Chech:
image

German:
image

You are right - quotation marks should be:

  1. consistent with the grammar of a given country
  2. uniform throughout the file.

I don't know English or Russian grammar very well and maybe we should use different citation marks depending on the country.
Short article from Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quotation_mark

@alabuzhev
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Russian help file - there is no-one single quotation mark.

Indeed, that one uses ‹› since 99c5014.
Probably it would make sense to keep using ‹› there (@HamRusTal?).

Some numbers to consider:

File\QM ' " « »
FarCze.hlf.m4 74 427 24 42 0 0 54 54 0 0 0 23 4 3
FarEng.hlf.m4 72 373 30 48 0 0 79 79 0 0 0 23 4 3
FarGer.hlf.m4 79 378 30 48 0 0 79 79 0 0 0 23 4 3
FarHun.hlf.m4 39 498 14 31 0 0 47 47 0 0 0 23 4 3
FarPol.hlf.m4 52 415 31 31 0 0 62 62 0 0 0 23 2 1
FarRus.hlf.m4 52 401 0 15 0 0 10 10 0 0 27 50 87 86
FarSky.hlf.m4 78 386 27 45 0 0 78 78 0 0 0 23 4 3
FarUkr.hlf.m4 285 393 25 52 0 0 69 69 0 0 0 23 4 3

As a heatmap:

image

From a maintainer's perspective I'd be happy to drop all the fancy quotes in favor of ": it dominates everywhere already and help isn't a piece of literature anyway.

@MKadaner
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MKadaner commented Nov 7, 2023

According to my (limited) knowledge of Russian typographical conventions, ‹› is not a thing at all, and «» («ёлочки») should be used throughout.

For English, my observations suggest that there are no hard-and-fast rules to choose between ‘’ and “”, but the latter («лапки») are prevalent at the top nesting level.

From a maintainer's perspective I'd be happy to drop all the fancy quotes in favor of "...

Boy! Do I agree.

@Px-x64
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Px-x64 commented Nov 8, 2023

Moving to one type of quotes seems good, but one thing to consider here is nested quotes (I didn't check if they are present in help). Text like "and then press "Enter"" is not really good, and using different quotes for "external" quotes adds readability: 'and then press "Enter"'. Thus needs to check if there are nested quotes, and select secondary quotes for such cases if they are present :)

@MKadaner
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MKadaner commented Nov 9, 2023

I think that we should utilize Far help syntax highlight (#Enter#). Then the question of nested quotes should be mostly moot.

@HamRusTal
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HamRusTal commented Nov 9, 2023

it would make sense to keep using ‹› there (@HamRusTal?)

I have no strong feelings on this.

help isn't a piece of literature anyway

It's still a text in a human language, subject to cultural differences. Quotation marks are part of punctuation to the same extent as commas or e.g. prefix ¿ and ¡ in Spanish. Also "straight quotes" require more complex context to highlight the quoted text than “these” or «those» paired quotation marks.

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5 participants